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Loose Change - The Best 9/11 Documentary


A while back I tried to watch "Fahrenheit 911" and it was crap, the guy was pulling facts out of his behind and making assumptions that were not supported by any facts at all. This documentary takes a completely different route:
"This film shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.

Evidence is derived from news footage, scientific fact, and most important, Americans who suffered through that tragic day."
This is a quote from official website. I think it gives a very interesting perspective on 9/11 (Btw it was made by a bunch of American 25 year olds).

I really recommend everybody to watch that. My personal opinion about US haven't changed after watching this documentary but only strengthened. Democracy as such doesn't exist anymore. And no, it didn't go away with Bush, it's been long since gone. Here are some facts for you to consider: foreign policy, IRS is unconstitutional (nothing about individual income tax in US constitution), lack of freedom of speech (Maximus you can say all you want about this one but it exists only until you don't cross some officials path), privacy (I would assume that freedom implies owning your personal information like health insurance, credit, and etc) and so on.

And how about the fact that those that has enough money can lobby anything they like in US senate. If you want example, RIAA lobbied to require from Russia to shut down an All Of Mp3s.com website in order to join WTO. Wiretapping is next. It happen without your citizens consent and did anybody got punished for doing that illegal? Of course not.

Anyway watch the movie and then comment. Here's the link on Google Videos to it. (1h 21min long)

posted by denis on Saturday, July 22, 2006

10 Comments:

At 22 July, 2006 14:59, Blogger memo said...

denis,

sorry to tell you but the IRS is constitutional; straight from the XVI ammendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

see, congress has power to collect taxes on incomes, including, but no limited to, individual income.

since the government does not produce it has to tax those that do produce... this isn't necesarily evil, but it usually does become so.

 
At 22 July, 2006 15:07, Blogger denis said...

Tnx for correcting me :)

I guess the point that I failed to make about taxes is why do I (or anyone else for that matter) have to sponsor the war in Iraq if they strongly disagree with it.

I would love to put my tax money to a better use like education or science though.

 
At 22 July, 2006 15:28, Blogger memo said...

denis,

that's a tough one... especially for people like you and me that pay taxes but do not get to elect officials.

believe it or not, people that live in D.C. also face the problem of "taxation without representation". they pay taxes, but their district doesn't have seats in congress or the senate.

as for what the government does with my tax money, i've never cared much... the U.S government works on borrowed money, thus the ever expanding deficit.

memo

 
At 22 July, 2006 22:55, Blogger Random said...

denis, I know that the US government isn't ideal or perfect, and you're right that true democracy doesn't exist and probably can never truly exist in a world like ours with corruption, money, etc., but isn't it just too easy to sit back on highest bleachers of the game yelling how much the players/coaches/refs suck?

I don't see what is constructive about your argument. Are you proposing a reform? a revolution? Whose government should the US model theirs after?

I agree with much of what you're saying, but some of your "facts" are not crystal clear. (not just the income tax mistake, although I have VERY strong feelings against our tax system) You can't say there is a lack of freedom of speech. What lack have you experienced? What privacy violations have come into your life? Just because the media bombards you with the lives and stories of 300 million people doesn't mean you are affected or that things are getting worse, or that rights are being taken away from you.

No doubt our political system is jacked up. It does NOT allow representation by the common person. It favors, caters, and is catered by the rich. It sucks bigtime. I don't have the solution either. I hate politics and politicians.

I feel your pain, denis, but I have no clue what to do about it.

-Max

As for the video, all I have to say is that I have seen a documentary with news footage, scientific fact, and personal witness from architects, engineers, firemen, etc. that counters that video. Which "facts" do you believe? I'm not a conspiracy theorist today, maybe I will be tomorrow, who knows?!!!

 
At 22 July, 2006 23:59, Blogger Random said...

All the video does is support whatever idea you had conceived in your mind prior to watching it. Showing partial video clips, only reporting part of the story, and quoting irrelavent "experts" without refuting "experts" from the opposite point of view never convinced anyone to switch sides. Bias only widens the gap. Non-balanced pretend fact-quoting is not news, it is only opinion, and will certainly re-inforce whatever your feelings are about what went down on 9/11. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

-max

 
At 23 July, 2006 01:46, Blogger denis said...

Maximus, don't get me wrong. I think 9/11 was a tragedy and hope it never happens again.

The point I was trying to make with this argument is that I'm sick of America emposing their "democracy" on everybody in the World. And of most Americans shouting to others about how perfect US is and etc.

I'm not saying that my contry is better in any way. That's a whole different discussion.

If there are problems you admit them and try to change it instead of saying that everything is perfect in paradise.

Maximus, I'm not saying that you are like that, but a lot of people are and it's getting on your nerves after hearing it all over the news and in person for the past X number of years.

Privacy. Well let's start by saying that my mail box got spammed by credit card offers on my name. Who gave them permission to view my credit information?!?! And since my information is accessible by anyone who is not lazy it gets sold and resold. We hear about compromized credit card information all the time (and not hear about even more) which means I don't even know if I'm in trouble and should worry about ID theft outcomes and etc. Why are there laws if other free contries against that and US there are none. Yes some states are trying to do something about it but I belive it should be done on a contry level.

I wish I could recite numerous accounts of my friends being shut up by officials either of goverment or private sector but it's not possible without braking their confidentiality. The fact or the matter is that what I stated before does exist.

By your second comment I could guess that you didn't watch the movie. I think you should give it a shot. It might not change your opinion but it will make you think about some things and be interested in the subject matter from all perspectives rather than just from one.

I agree that it is a matter of what you believe in. History is always written by the winners and/or those in power isn't it?

 
At 23 July, 2006 13:16, Blogger bla said...

Hmm politics lol. Not a favorable subject of mine, but I guess I'm going to have to start sometime! And now is the best time since I now work for a company who is directly connected to politics (I make websites for political organizations lol). I haven't watched the movie yet so I can't comment on all that, but I wanted to comment on the comments.

I think in a way all of us who commented are in the same place we just don't realize it. We all realize that the US isn't perfect and that there are many flaws. We might realize it in different ways - and that's good because variety helps us all see the sides that we previously failed to. I know Maximus doesn't idolize his government like the people Denis talked about and I'm sure none of us like those who do. Anywhere you go you'll find people favoring things you disagree with or think are completely wrong, just because there are people who do those things - not just in US, but everywhere. I mean look at Hitler, he ideolized the Germans so much, they wanted to destroy everything and everyone who they thought were lower than them (very extreme case I know, but it's the one that jumped at me).

Things like privacy have long been under my watch as well, especially when it comes to the computer world. But I also think like Maximus said - what and how would it change? As far as internet privacy changes I don't see things getting better. I think if spam is gone, something will replace it. And if they do manage to put a leash on all these things - then I have a feeling our privacy (whatever is left of it) will fly out the window with spam and all the rest of the stuff. There maybe solutions for this not to happen, but then the government will have to give way and we all know no government will want to do that.

I don't know how to change all this either, but I think it's a good thing that Denis and others bring these things up sometimes. They make me think not just of the problems with US, but anywhere else. The reason it's easier to see the problems in the US is not because all the foreign people hate this country - which I think is usually how many Americans see it. It's because we live here and we see things and since we didn't grow up here we add the mentality of our previous experience and so we see things like that. I'm not saying this is true with everyone, but I know this is the case with me.

 
At 23 July, 2006 18:19, Blogger Random said...

Thanks for your comments denis and bla, and to answer your challenge denis, I did watch all 1 hr. 21 mins. of the movie before I posted last night. I don't presume to comment on a movie without watching it first. Do you believe that movie is not bias? The director presents one TV reporter in Timbucktoo who says he heard explosions or saw a white plane without showing the other 1,000 testimonials of something else. He is ONLY presenting ONE side. That's all I'm saying. The movie doesn't educate, it only reinforces your pre-conceived notions. I followed 9/11 with the rest of the country live on all major news networks for weeks and months after the disaster, and that is where I formed my opinions of what happened that day.

If you are a conspiracy theorist, you will see a wealth of ammunition in the movie. If you are not, you will see the onesidedness of the material presented. My suggestion is to watch the documentary, and also to watch other documentaries on 9/11, the World Trade Towers, al Queda, Bin Laden, and others to form an unbiased opinion of what happened that day.

It's no different than all the conspiracy surrounding JFK's assassination, but that turned out to be just some commie nut-job acting alone.

Are you saying denis, that the US government planned and executed 9/11? If you are saying that, what would the motive be? The directors of the movie present at the very end that a possible motive is "billions of dollars". Show me the money. Show me the oil. Show me anything. The economy has tanked, the oil prices have skyrocketed, the dollar is weakening, etc.

To me, it was just time wasted. Don't think the moviemakers are Bush fans turned against him by their research. They are presenting their opinion of course like all do.

-max

 
At 23 July, 2006 20:38, Blogger memo said...

all,

i just wanted to point out max just made a very strong point against all 9/11 conspiracy theorists, and i would like to add one.

1. max's point: there's no motive.
2. there's no murder weapon... if the plane didn't do it, how come they no one has found what did it?

without those two things, you wouldn't be able to convict anyone in any court in pretty much any law abiding country.

i know what theorists say; the govt. is hiding it... well then, like max said, where's my 2.00 gallon of gas?

alas, a house divided against itself cannot stand. time will tell us what really happened on 9/11, but i have a feeling the U.S govt. wouldn't kill their own people for oil... they might kill arabs, but not their own people.

memo

 
At 24 July, 2006 17:52, Blogger denis said...

Maximus,

As you probably noticed I never said that I think this movie is 100% right or wrong. I just said that it makes you think about the same events from a different perspective. For me it is a reminder to analize everything very carefully and not get blinded by the media's representation of events whether it's one extreme or the other.

You mentioned that JFK assasination. Even if it was done by somebody else we will never know the truth or I should say the full truth about that event. Same thing with 9/11 we will only know one side of the story (the government's) the rest will all be unconfirmed assumptions.

Memo,

"time will tell us what really happened on 9/11" - it never will because as I mentioned in one of the comments the history is written by winners and/or those in power. US government is still in place and we will anly hear their side of the story. As time will pass it will only be forgotten and noone will even remember the details of the tragedy in 15-20 years only the fact that it did happen, who were the good guys and who were the bad guys.

Politics is a very sensetive subject because everybody has their own opinions. But I still like bringing it up on this blog every once in a while because whether we want it or not we are all subjects to decisions of those in power. We all need to understand that the world is not black and white but a gradient with billions different shades of gray and each decision and/or event has another billion different shades attached to it depending on which side you look from.

 

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