pub with drinks on different topics and visitors from around the world to come and chat

txt :: Conspiracy theory

I'm having a hard time swallowing all of you guys' talk about conspiracy theory. Two things:

1. Your paranoia and aversion to "big companies".

The big corporations carry the load of the US economy, and also employ the most number of people. Why shouldn't true capitalism determine the way governments do things. They influence 90% of american life. Hello, Wal-mart anyone? You all shop there! If you are concerned about big companies, stop supporting them. At the end of the day, they are in it to make money. If the money stops flowing, the business dies (Maximus' darwinian theory of business :-> ). As long as we support those companies, they will continue to influence lawmakers. Remember, rich people don't stuff their money in mattresses. They either consume (creating more jobs -- stimulating the economy), or they invest in stocks, companies, etc. (stimulating the economy). Don't kill the American Dream, it's what built this country!

2. Identity/Surveillance protection. Big Brother idea.

Trust me, denis, it's much much worse in Europe than in America. Haven't you ever watched MAX X? Dude, Russians/Euros have absolutely no rights, they get the crap kicked out of them if they are even suspected of a crime. Police brutality in that USA!? HA! Euros have no habeus corpus, no Miranda rights, no privacy rights, no nothing! You think they need warrants of search and siezure in Europe? Nope, think again. Only those countries whose constitutions are modeled after THE Constitution/Bill of Rights have those rights guaranteed. America leads the world in protecting its citizens. I agree I don't like the idea of being spied on in any public place, but there are laws preventing organizations to use anything like that unless crimes were committed. I don't know about you, but I don't want another 2500 killed in a 9/11 attack. I don't mind being groped at the airport to prevent Osama from boarding my flight. (Oh, there he is!!! :->) Remember all those actors/celebrities who promised they would move to Europe if G. Bush was elected? Well, guess what. They're still here. Know why? Yup, I know you do. That's why you're here. ;)


We who are about to die, salute you!

posted by Random on Friday, December 30, 2005


At 30 December, 2005 23:59, Blogger bla said...

Very good points dod. I agree with all of them. I definately agree about Europe being really bad with the privacy issues. Mostly from what I've been reading. At least in some countries anyways. Now that's as far as we know. I mean technically we may not know about so many different additional privacy violating measures that any of the countries can be taking. And that's really what I was talking about when I talked about the conspiracies. I meant the things that we don't know about. That's where the big corporations (like Google) come in. Especially Google since we trust them with more and more of the information.

As far as the American Dream goes I have my thoughts on that. If I understand right what drives the American Dream is "time is money." I might be wrong... but that's how it seems to me. I was talking to my old roommate Ivan about this. I don't think this is a right mindset. It's very different in Europe. Time is money there too, but at the same time not everyone tries to work 80 hours a week just so they can afford a mansion. They'd rather work 40-50, afford a normal house and enjoy the rest of the time. Now I'm not saying this is everyone, but here in the U.S. the whole time is money thing is very much in the mindset of every person. Ivan was telling me how in the research he's doing he is looking at Ph.D. professors who are looking at living a cheap normal life till they're 40 and then retiring early because they did so. This is what I'm talking about.

Anyways sorry for the novell (:

At 31 December, 2005 03:47, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't even bring Russia in. The laws are crap there and everybody knows it, really nothing to compare (although we have pretty big terrorist activity inland and non-stop [recent attack on a city for example]) :(

Europe on the other hand is a little bit different. I was taking a class here at BYU where we talked about privacy issues regarding your personal information in US vs. EU.

Well, to put it in simple terms: "US loses hands down". In EU the person owns his information (insurance, health and etc.) and without their consent it cannot be shared, sold or anything like that. If the information about a person was compromised then the person must be notified. In US we don't here about half of the stolen credit card numbers and etc because companies don't have to notify enyone about it (I believe Cali now has a law about it). US and EU even had to set up such thing as Safe Harbor so that companies with personal information can somehow work with each other. That's regarding personal information.

I totally support The Constitution and The Bill of Rights but if we just look at how many points from them were violated by Patriot Act alone then it becomes a little scary.

Celebrities are mostly either too drunk, too high or too stupid to give any real opinions and stick to them. They think that only because they are opinions leaders for different segments they can say whatever they want. Well, apparently not entirely (with what you mentioned they lost a lot of credibility in any political issues).

The state of privacy and personal rights (lack of them if the real need comes) combined with second point made by Bla changed my opinions a long time ago. That's why I'm ONLY getting my education here.

I understand that we're talking from different perspectives (international vs. native) and the laws are a bit different for each.

And my last point is that money is great but they have to be one of the tools for reaching destination rather than the distination.

Sorry for long comment, now I'm done :)

At 31 December, 2005 20:28, Blogger Goga said...

Randall, all i have to say lol is on your point of all the actors/celeberties who promised to move to europe if bush got elected, I think thats because all the comics understood that they can never reach the high standard of comedy that bush set. I mean, i watch the news more then comedy central now, so i guess it just scared them that he will put them out of their jobs with his shananigans on tv, which i think he did, he's halarious...but then i understand that he is being serious and it scares me...seriously

At 08 January, 2006 21:24, Blogger Random said...

I guess my problem is that I'm an optimist. I know that America isn't perfect, and we are still working out the laws on surveillance, privacy, and everything. I guess all I'm saying is that in spite of the bad things, the US is still the greatest country on God's green earth. (oh, and please know that I am typing tongue in cheek, you get a great response playing devil's advocate) Greatest is a relative term. No claim on perfection. Maybe it's just the tallest of the midgets. But if you disagree, please share which country is greater, and why.

In response to the patriot act, please. In what way have you been jeopardized or have your constitutional rights been violated? Again, short term solution and not a perfect solution, but at least it is action. It was Clinton's lackadaisical attitude that allowed information sharing blunders that caused 9/11. "Oh, you mean the FBI is SUPPOSED to talk to local police!??" Duh!

And bla, the American Dream is not about money at all!!! It's about this: Let's say you are a plumber. You work your tail off to be the best plumber you can be. You get the best jobs, and build a business with 50 employees and 25 vans, a building, an electrical spin-off company, and all the while, you're an armenian whose grasp of english is....well, not great. (like goga :->) You're not judged but you're rewarded for hard work, and you realize your dreams. Jogir??

Goga, you're killing me.

At 09 January, 2006 09:04, Blogger bla said...

No no. You defined the American Dream. I didn't do that. What I said is that it is driven by the thought of "time is money so lets work a lot to get money, then work even more because we want more and more luxuries." Don't get me wrong, it seems to be working, and working great. Don't think I'm saying we shouldn't strive for the better. But I think that when this gets in the way of the other things in your life like family, friends, etc that's when it stops being a dream and becomes a nighmare that you still think is the realization of your dream. Now there are people who have achieved the American Dream, and haven't done this. I'm not saying this is the way of everyone. But it seems to be driving this country.

Not trying to diss the US or make it look like it's the worst country in the world. No country is perfect in its ways and I'll be first to admit that my country is way far from it. But we all love our homeland one way or another, because it's our homeland. I think we all need to remember this and consider the pride that's in all of us and inside of our friends. Being an optimist isn't a problem dod. I'm a huge optimist myself and, if you ask me, it works just fine and dandy for me (:

P.S. You wanted someone to name the greatest country in the world? Armenia! Reason: we have the best grapes ever. Does this illustrate your notion of "greatest as a relative term"? (:
P.P.S. My grasp of english is great thank you! By the way anyone want a gum...? hehe

At 09 January, 2006 11:25, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you bla for putting it very nicely about the "best contry in the world".

I think there just isn't one. every contry has something good and exeptional about it (Russia is the biggest and has whole bunch of Russians... ok ok and it does have the best vodka :) ). But at the same time every contry has a ton of bad things about it so there isn't a "best contry" and never will be unless we have "a contry" in the afterlife coz then it will be best for sure :).

What I personally don't like about Patriot Act is that any person at any time can be held inprisoned for a long time without even being accused of anything and just because he looks like a terrorist.

Let me share a story, this really happen in UT. So there was this guy who is a muslim and he went to the mosque. When he was coming back he saw a police man signaling to stop. Knowing that he is arab he was extra coutious and stodded as fast as he could. The cops then asked him why did he stop so fast, is he hiding something. After he told them that he was coming from the mosque he then was arrested and held for 3 or so weeks without being able to cantact anyone. And that anyone was his american wife with 2 kids. During this time the police was trying to investigate if he was really a terrorist. But they were doing it by trying to make wife tell if he's hiding anything by telling her that he is a taliban and etc. So when they finally let him go he was very surprised to hear that his wife filed for divorce and put a restraning order on him.

That's what I'm kinda angry for. Our right to fair trial could be easily denigned just based on an interesting combination of our religion and race. Arabs are simple people same as you and I. Terrorists are those that blow things up some of whom happen to be arabs.

Wow, that's some discussion :)

At 09 January, 2006 23:07, Blogger Random said...

Denis and bla:

thanks for your awesome responses! I admit that armenia has some damn good grapes, and I love armenian women too! Unfortunately I've never had vodka, but I bet I would love it if I did!!!

Now, let me respond thus: I have lived in Europe for 2 years. Albeit Eastern former communist europe but still. I love Romania! I love the culture, the language, and the people. They have unique exceptional attributes that are amazing. I just think that to some extent, you are able to evaluate contries objectively. You have to agree that countries who are members of the EU, for example, are "better" countries than non-EU members who couldn't qualify due to their laws or economy. Is that measurement a country's contribution to the world? Is it how big of an economy? Is it which country would the majority of ppl in the world want to live in? Is it whose grapes are best? I don't know the answer, but don't you agree that there is some sense of comparison overall?

For example, compare Germany to Iran. Greece to Ghana. Maybe I'm off, but to me there is some relative comparison. Thoughts?

Denis, I agree that it sucks for that guy in UT. Racial/Ethnic profiling does suck. His rights were being violated, no doubt about it. What also stinks is that people who claim to be the same religion as that guy are bombing the crap out of the rest of the world. Maniac murderers who killed 2000 civilians and who wouldn't give a darn about putting a bullet through our heads wear the same clothes, and are the same ethnicity as that innocent guy. It's not quite so simple as you may think....I admit that I agree with you, but maybe that's something to think about.


At 10 January, 2006 00:07, Blogger bla said...

OK so in 1992 or so we had no electricity almost every day. We only had it for like 1 hour or 2. This was so for a couple of years (it kept getting better and worse), but I was still happy. We adapted and we still were able to be happy.

I think even though there is a comparison overall, it really all comes down to us - people and our happiness. We are so good at adapting to anything really and creating our own "home" no matter where we go. Most of the time it doesn't really matter if we don't own a Lamborgini. Sure there are those times when you wish you really did have one, and sometimes dreams do come true.

I guess this time I'm taking the optimistic approach in saying that as long as we're happy where we are, then it doesn't matter just how developed our country is. We can make ourselves happy no matter what. All we need is our families, our friends and loved ones. Good enough for me if you ask me.

Didn't mean this to go all cheesy and stuff lol. Sorry if it did!

At 10 January, 2006 10:01, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Money is not something that should make us happy, it's friends and family that should (just reiterating bla's point). If you're doing comparison economy wise then yes US might be the best.

How about quality of life? Then Canada and Sweden win hands down (That's from official ratings that I've heard of a couple years ago).

How about quality of actual people? Then noone wins. Even though we could go and point out good and bad about people of every nation it's still going to be good and bad.

I can understand that you feel very passionately about 9/11 and etc. but back home we have the same thing happening every year. And the victims of terrorists attacs are more like in the tens of thousands just because of the number of these attacks (at least one or two major ones every year). I find myself striggeling sometimes in distinguishing the extrimists from the chechnyans.

At 10 January, 2006 23:53, Blogger Random said...

I think we can lay this post to rest. Thanks guys. I feel enlightened.

At 11 January, 2006 07:34, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It was one very interesting discussion.

At 11 January, 2006 07:40, Blogger bla said...

Great post, great comments, great conclusions! Thanks for the thoughts (:

At 28 February, 2009 01:48, Anonymous Anonymous said...







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